(03-12-2011, 09:33 AM)Shock Wrote: [ -> ]Infinity argues really good points almost every time unless it is something stupid and he thinks there is no point to it...
I want to see somebody beat him in a legitimate argument.
But I am not that good at arguing unless I am really fired up so I am not going to participate in this.
Good Luck Though 
Well next week, i have an idea in mind that depending what side he choices i might be able to beat him.
Locke Wrote:If we believe we can never be anything more than what fate has designed for us, what motivation have we to try?
That's where the illusion of free will comes into play. It inevitably entertains fate itself in my opinion. Whether you believe free will or not, that false hope gives us motivation to make proper decisions whether or not fate will decide the outcome or not.
Scalise Wrote:Every minutiae action you take in life can drastically alter events in the future, and to believe that all of these events and paths you take are already mapped out for you is just ludicrous.
Your theory is that they alter the events in time, but it doesn't yet prove that the future has actually changed based on actions we make within a period in time? Einstein's theory of Relativity started out as a theory, but just until recently scientists have been using it to make sense of many other things related to the dimensions in time. Keeping an open mind is what makes new discoveries. Time travel is possible, it's just hard to make the circumstances to make use of our knowledge on how we could make it possible. And even though it is possible, and you could go back in time to try and change your destiny/fate, what if that is part of someones fate, even if they had the ability to time travel? It's still within the boundaries of time itself, and fate is in direct relation to time.
Scalise Wrote:If you've never seen Donnie Darko I suggest you check it out, it covers this entire topic, and how time plays into its role, great movie. You just might look more carefully at the decisions you make after watching it.
I've never seen it, but before I watch it I can say that it's also just a theory. I'll look into it to keep an unbiased opinion on fate and free will in relation to time though.
Freewill is a belief, and fate is an idea.
I don't know how many of you here are able to reject the idea that we are just dancing on the strings pulled by a larger, unknowable force, but I have.
If you are willing to let Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos spin your thread of fate without argument, are you really living your life?
What of Odysseus and his journey? He fought against the machinations of a god to return home. Surely, a god has the ability to control a mere mortal's fate?
Without freewill we would never fight, we would never truly live, and the ideas behind the worth if humanity and it's achievements would lose meaning.
If nobody does anything of thier own power, is anyone truly great?
Is there any true good or evil?
Is there any love?
Or, are we all just watching from the wings, as the play unfolds, each of us is just a prop or a tool for fate's entertaiment?
Everybody has a fate, or final action they perform before they die. What we're arguing here is whether or not this fate is predetermined, am I right?
How does one predict their fate? While some events are inevitable, you are always able to redirect the course of your life at any time.
To say that these spontaneous decisions you make are already mapped out and were meant to happen makes no sense. If that was the way things were, if one person's fate was to live long and prosper, they could spend a life of being healthy or smoking crack every day living off the streets and somehow still end up exactly the same.
I don't understand your logic. Unless I'm completely misinterpreting it.
Scalise Wrote:Everybody has a fate, or final action they perform before they die.
That's not what Fate is though. Fate or destiny is what your purpose in life was destined to be. Like a pre-written story that leads to the resolution through a series of events.
Scalise Wrote:What we're arguing here is whether or not this fate is predetermined, am I right?
It wouldn't be fate if it wasn't pre-determined. That's what free will is, not fate.
Scalise Wrote:How does one predict their fate? While some events are inevitable, you are always able to redirect the course of your life at any time.
This supports the idea of free will, but even if you can redirect the course, the destination may always be the same. That is the purpose of fate.
Scalise Wrote:To say that these spontaneous decisions you make are already mapped out and were meant to happen makes no sense. If that was the way things were, if one person's fate was to live long and prosper, they could spend a life of being healthy or smoking crack every day living off the streets and somehow still end up exactly the same.
It's the same thing how people survive motorcycle accidents, and some die. Some people were meant to go sooner than others. There's no absolute difference between them. They could smoke crack everyday, and survive, or they could not smoke crack everyday and survive. Both are possible outcomes, but different courses leading to the same resolution.
Scalise Wrote:I don't understand your logic. Unless I'm completely misinterpreting it.
People see things in different ways, that's what raises the discussion in a debate.
(03-12-2011, 03:12 PM)Infinity Wrote: [ -> ]People see things in different ways, that's what raises the discussion in a debate.
This is always true and always will be, everyone sees life in a different way. Most of it I believe is where they live and also how they were taught these ideas.
Infinity do you happen to be religious? If you are I don't really feel like debating with you anymore, lol.
(03-12-2011, 03:34 PM)Scalise Wrote: [ -> ]Infinity do you happen to be religious? If you are I don't really feel like debating with you anymore, lol.
No, I don't believe in any religion lol. I find them interesting, but i'm not religious. But who says science won't let us have a fate? Many things in science have surprised us before. Fate doesn't have to be a "god," but I won't say that I know what it is or how people invented or adopted the idea. I'm not here to 'win' a debate, i'm just here for the discussion to try and keep an open mind to things. But so far there's no evidence of anything really.
I have nothing against religion, but if you were I just wasn't going to argue against the beliefs of millions of people, haha.
There's never really evidence for anything when it comes to time, it's all one big prediction.
Personally I just feel that I have the ability to become whoever I want, and not fall a victim to some stupid fate. I want to believe that everybody on this Earth has the same odds to become successful in whatever they want to do. The only thing preventing these things from happening are the opportunities and circumstances they're provided (formal education, proper upbringing, etc.).
I hate to think that somebody could be "doomed from the start". I'd like to believe that those who did't make it either didn't put in the effort, change their minds, or just died altogether.
We have one life, one shot, and you better hope you use it to the greatest of your ability.
(03-12-2011, 03:46 PM)Scalise Wrote: [ -> ]I have nothing against religion, but if you were I just wasn't going to argue against the beliefs of millions of people, haha.
There's never really evidence for anything when it comes to time, it's all one big prediction.
Personally I just feel that I have the ability to become whoever I want, and not fall a victim to some stupid fate. I want to believe that everybody on this Earth has the same odds to become successful in whatever they want to do. The only thing preventing these things from happening are the opportunities and circumstances they're provided (formal education, proper upbringing, etc.).
I hate to think that somebody could be "doomed from the start". I'd like to believe that those who did't make it either didn't put in the effort, change their minds, or just died altogether.
We have one life, one shot, and you better hope you use it to the greatest of your ability.
As for the "god" topic, i think you basically stated he can't exist because we have no proof of him right? Well based on your thinking we also have no proof he doesn't exist. Also we are doomed from the start. We are just humans but we are not smart enough to understand, nothing in the world matters. We look for reason and passion even though everything will end one day. If there is a begining to anything there must also be an end. So what does it matter how far we make it in life. Its all just a thought that us humans invented to try to find meaning in the internal hell. No mater what happens we will die. so fate is fake and choice is useless.
dam i think i just depressed myself writing that. now i am sad.